The Roundup

by Rant on October 8, 2008 · 21 comments

in Doping in Sports, Floyd Landis, Lance Armstrong, Operacion Puerto

… Or what the heck has been happening since last I wrote a Rant?

Boy, is there ever a whole lot of stuff going on these days. We’ve got train-wrecks everywhere, but nowhere more stunning than in our financial/economic system. I hate to say it, but I’ve been spending a fair amount of time pre-occupied with the state of the market, the state of some investments, and the state of a few other things (which are stories for another day).

Operacion Puerto the Endless just keeps on rolling, as this article at VeloNews points out. At some point, don’t you think it’s time for the powers that be to either put it all on the table — including the names and allegations against those rumored footballers (professsional soccer players on this side of the pond), tennis players and others. Or, the powers that be need to let it drop and focus their limited amounts of time and resources on actually tracking down and catching the cheats who are operating in the sports world today. Call me a pessimist, but I don’t believe for a minute that the steps taken by the UCI, WADA and others over the last year has completely eliminated (or will ever eliminate) the scourge of doping from cycling or any other sport.

There’s cheaters out there. And they’re pretty creative at times. Doesn’t mean that what they do will work, but just like some folks seek out newer and better ways of training to dominate in their sports (consider how Armstrong and Bruyneel revolutionized things by focusing Lance’s training on the Tour), there are also those who are creatively seeking shortcuts to success.

When will the revelations about Operacion Puerto end? VeloNews tells us that it’s case closed. But if I were a betting man, I’d guess that we won’t stop hearing about OP until WADA’s statute of limitations runs out. Which means 2014, given the eight-year rule currently in place.

And, of course, there’s the back and forth between the Pierre Bordry or the AFLD and Lance Armstrong. Given that one of the criticisms about the whole L’Equipe/LNDD/Armstrong affair in 2005 was that samples stored so long might have, ahem, spoiled, wouldn’t more testing today — as Bordry suggested — be even more likely to have dubious results? That wouldn’t exactly clear the air, would it? And then there’s the question of whether or not enough of the samples remain for testing to take place.

Be that as it may, the reality was that Bordry’s offer was just a trap. One that Armstrong didn’t fall in to. If he agreed, and if the results came back looking bad for Armstrong, that would only strengthen the arguments of those who say Armstrong doped back in the day. Like he’s going to give them an opportunity to do that. I think not. And even if the samples didn’t come back positive, those who are convinced of Lance’s guilt would find an explanation for why the results were what they were. So nothing would really be resolved.

(Historical note: I believe it was Dr. Christiane Ayotte, of the Montreal anti-doping lab, who suggested that Armstrong’s samples stored after the 1999 Tour would not be usable.)

Moving on, Jean-Marie Leblanc recently weighed in on Armstrong’s return to racing.

“But Lance, let’s suppose that you’ll still be competitive in 2009 – and that’s a strong possibility – there is all the same a small problem which is bothering us.

“It’s the side effects that your return will inevitably have on cycling’s image.

“Us former riders generally have respect for winners, but that’s not always the case with the public and above all the media who have heavy suspicions about you.

“The hounds will be let loose, column inches will be written, images repeated, and debate sparked about the one word which has petrified our passion over the past ten years: doping.”

Well, I’m sure that the previous animosity between Leblanc and Armstrong (stemming from Leblanc’s comments in 2005, shortly after the L’Equipe story about Armstrong’s supposed positive test results from samples taken during the 1999 Tour blew up) has nothing to do with what Mr. L is currently saying. Just a concern — one cyclist to another — that Armstrong’s return might refocus the media on doping in our fair sport. Is coverage of cycling that radically different in Europe now? No more stories about doping in cycling? Coulda fooled me. Seems like they surface just often enough so that we never forget. (We’ll get to a new story that surfaced today later in this post…)

Despite his time away from the sport, Armstrong’s name has often been bandied about in connection with past sins. So what, exactly, is going to change in that regard?

And in the midst of all this we’re treated to a side order of young master Jean-Etienne Amaury thrown in. (In case you missed it, the scion of the Amaury clan recently said , “We cannot say that he does not embarrass the Tour de France, …”) Who’s embarrassing whom? Inquiring minds want to know.

Meanwhile, in the last week, filings and other papers related to the lawsuit that Floyd Landis filed in US District Court attempting to vacate the CAS panel’s ruling in his case have become publicly available. We’ve had some discussion on this site, but the bulk of the discussion has been going on over at Trust But Verify.There are enough posts over there that I’m not going to try linking to them all, but this one and this one both have interesting comments. Also, there are a number of interesting discussions about the new case going on between Larry, “m” and DR/Ken. Larry and DR/Ken have participated in the discussions here, too, in case you haven’t been reading all the commentary. Take the time and read all of what’s posted at TBV. There’s much to be found there, beyond just the two discussions that I linked to, above.

It’s certainly been interesting, watching lawyers going through what seems to me a rather serious discussion of the fundamental issues of the case. The first major question in this new lawsuit is, “Does the US District Court have the authority to do what Landis is asking, and if so, under what law does the court have that authority?”

Before the court even bothers to address the other issues raised by Landis’ lawyers, the judge has to determine whether the US District court has jurisdiction. Interestingly, in the way the WADA code and the CAS are set up, the only avenue for appeal of a CAS decision is in the Swiss courts. But as Ken has pointed out here and at TBV, a request to vacate (throw out) a ruling is not an appeal. In that particular instance, none of the issues decided by the CAS panel are being reviewed (which is in contrast to what Justin Gatlin was trying to do earlier this year).

Instead, Landis’ team is arguing that there are fundamental issues and events that denied Landis the possibility of a fair hearing, and because he was not afforded a fair hearing, the result should be thrown out. (Is that a fair summary, my fine feathered legal eagle friends?)

Among the topics being discussed is what law allows the US courts to hear this request. Will it be decided on under the provisions of the Federal Arbitration Act, or the New York Convention, or both? Exactly which law is applied and how it is applied may determine the outcome of Landis’ request. However the court rules, Larry, “m”, Ken/DR (and at various points EightZero) have all contributed a great deal to the overall understanding of the intricacies of the case.

As simple as Landis’ lawsuit sounds on the surface, the discussion gives me the impression that the reality is far from simple. The court will have some very substantial issues to resolve in deciding:

  1. Whether to allow the case to proceed, and
  2. If the case proceeds, how the controlling law will be applied to reach a decision

It’s worth noting, too, that we have yet to see what USADA’s response will be to the lawsuit (though parts of their response may well be very predictable). Some of the discussions at TBV may well foreshadow the arguments that USADA will use if/when they ask the judge to throw Landis’ lawsuit out. Outside of the questions Landis’ case raises, there are a couple of questions in my mind.

First, will his case be decided before his suspension ends? Let’s just say I won’t be betting my last dollar on that possibility. While I certainly hope that’s the case, the cynic in me expects that this could drag on for quite some time to come.

Second, will this lawsuit have a negative impact on Landis’ ability to find employment and begin racing again? If the case drags on, I’d expect that Team Landis would seek a ruling that might allow for his return to racing without paying the $100,000 fine up front. The logic behind this? Given an ongoing case challenging the fine and the basis for the fine, Landis should not have to pay up front only to have the money refunded later on.

Also, by forcing him to pay the fine before he can begin racing, USADA and USA Cycling are imposing an additional ban. One which creates economic hardships for Floyd. Should he lose his case in the US courts, there will be plenty of time to pay the $100K. In the meantime, no harm is done to anyone else by letting him start racing on January 30th. (Provided that he does have a place on a team by then.) On the other hand, by preventing Floyd Landis from earning a living, by refusing to issue his racing license once his suspension is over, USADA/USA Cycling are causing financial harm to Landis.

And if they truly want to recover that $100,000 (as I’ve said before) the surest way to do that is to let the man race. We’ll have to see how that all works out.

Finally (as if this hasn’t been enough for one post), there’s the story that Jean C pointed out this morning. The IOC is now going to be testing blood samples for CERA, using what the Times Online calls “a state-of-the-art test, developed at the Châtenay-Malabry laboratory in France.” The Times article mentions Ricardo Ricco and Leondardo Piepolli, as well as Stephan Schumacher have all tested positive for CERA. Apparently recent test results based on samples provided by Piepolli and Schumacher at this year’s Tour have implicated these riders, as well. From the Times Online:

Cera remains in the system three times longer than EPO, making it easier to detect, and the positive tests of Schumacher, the winner of both time-trials on this year’s Tour, and Leonardo Piepoli and Riccardo Ricco, the Italian riders, suggest that Cera’s days as a blood-booster are numbered.

Cycling’s fate is also in the balance. Pierre Bordry, the president of the French Anti-Doping Agency, confirmed that 30 Tour riders are under scrutiny but said that another new test, designed to catch those giving themselves transfusions of their own blood, was on the way. “It is in the process of being put in place,” Bordry said. “It is within our capabilities, but it does not exist yet with precision.”

Despite the backslapping that greeted the latest results, doping is still a significant issue, with each sting proving that the cheats are active. However, having been accused of pulling punches in the fight against drugs, the IOC seems determined to take a lead and has also filed a lawsuit against the coach of Fani Halkia, the 400 metres hurdles gold medal-winner from 2004, asking for him to be prosecuted in Greece.

Halkia failed a drugs test in August but claimed this week that she was “sabotaged”, while George Panagiotopoulos denied supplying her with steroids.

Perhaps these new tests mean that the fight against doping in cycling and other sports is being won. Then again, perhaps not. Interesting that these new results and new stories are breaking well after the events are concluded. That certainly keeps the heat on the athletes, while at the same time keeps the heat off the events and the sponsors. Maybe that’s why it takes so long for all of these additional tests to be completed.

I’ll end tonight’s post here, having already covered quite a bit of ground. Someday soon, I’ll be updating the Afterword to Dope. There’s certainly no dearth of new material to included, given the ever evolving stories coming out of the Tour, the Olympics and even out of Operacion Puerto.

Jean C October 9, 2008 at 5:41 am

Rant,

About Ayotte and the Armstrong urine samples with EPO, she has retracted later her statement. Probably Lance would have quoted scientists in his refusal of Bordry’s proposal if it was not true. Maybe Catlin, who named him as protector of Lance, could have helped him.

What is strange with the own personnal testing of Lance is the absence of blood storage ans especially on long term for retrotesting! Why? With what we have seen with CERA (difficul to detect in urine but easier in blood) that is surprising!

A clean rider is now worried by retrotesting.

Rant October 9, 2008 at 7:23 am

Jean,
If you ever find an article with that, send a link. I’d appreciate it. As for Lance’s personal testing plan, or even that of Damsgaard or ACE, I wouldn’t be surprised if samples aren’t stored for later retesting. It would be smart to do, as a way of backing up their own data if any positive test results come from an in-competition or out-of-competition test. But it also costs a bit of money, adding to the expense of the program, and it requires a certain amount of security for those stored samples. So I can easily picture a case where to save a bit of money they would just take samples, assemble their data, and leave it at that.

Jean C October 9, 2008 at 9:58 am

Rant,

Maybe I could check for a link but it seems we already have that conversation… and since the proposal of Bordry none of the Lance’s fans, neither other scientists dared to reuse that old and erroneous Ayotte’s point. Probably it’s possible to find her own denial in forums, that was often treated. If I find it I will post it.

About to froze samples, it’s costly but not for someone like Lance, it’s very less than to use a private jet. Even Fuentes used it for doping, and it’s possible to sent the samples to Lausanne as did IOC with Beijing samples.

Rant October 9, 2008 at 10:27 am

Jean,
If your run across the Ayotte quote, that would be great. I’ll look around for it, too. You’re right, of course, that it’s probably cheaper to store old samples than it is to use a private jet. But the reality is that Lance is just hiring an outside company to do the work. Don Catlin happens to be the scientist at the company he chose. But Lance didn’t just go to Catlin and say, “How about you run my personal anti-doping screenings?”. Now, that said, Lance probably chose the company because of Catlin’s presence.
I suspect that Armstrong is probably not all that concerned with whether they store old samples, he just wants to be able do something that demonstrates he’s playing clean. Saving samples for future testing is not something he’s probably considered too much. He certainly has the money to pay for long-term storage. But I doubt he made it a stipulation of his agreement with them. Perhaps things will change, however.

Dave October 9, 2008 at 10:42 am

OK, Call me thick headed, but is there not still a question of how/why the recent CERA test results were released – has there been a request by the riders for the B sample? I thought everything was to stay confidential untill after the B test confirmed the positive????

Rant October 9, 2008 at 10:59 am

Dave,
You’re not thick-headed. You’re asking just the right questions. Were the B samples already tested, and have they confirmed the initial findings? And, if the B samples haven’t been requested or the B sample testing isn’t complete, why has this information been released at all?

Jean C October 9, 2008 at 11:05 am

Dave,

When an AFF occurs riders, federations, UCI and WADA are at least informed. Generaly the team fires the riders and make a press release… so in a few hour or day, everyone knows it. So it s probably better to announce it officially.

Probably too because the blood testing was done twice in 2 different labs (lndd and Lausanne) and with 2 different methods. And don’t forget that those riders were targeted by abnormal biomarkers.

Cabazon October 9, 2008 at 5:06 pm

“The other thing is samples will be kept frozen for a good long time so that if next year, five years a new test comes out and someone says Lance was doing something five years ago, we can pull out the samples and test them. This is longitudinal testing whereas the usual type of testing is taking a stop in time. This is where you connect the dots and is much more powerful kind of program to understand the physiology.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2008/armstrong_interbike08

The above is from Catlin and does appear to address the issue expressed by Jean above. It’s not specific re: blood or urine, but appears to be pretty direct.

I would imagine that anyone willing to work for/with LA would be a pet or protector in some peoples’ eyes, but Catlin seems to be held in pretty high esteem within and outside of the anti-doping community, no?

Rant October 9, 2008 at 7:29 pm

Cabazon,
Thanks. I stand corrected. Catlin is held in high regard, and I’m sure that’s one of the reasons that Armstrong selected his firm to do the testing. Who better than the guy that used to run the well-respected UCLA lab?

William Schart October 9, 2008 at 8:39 pm

How do we tell if the fight against doping is won? If the 2009 is run without any doping violations being detected, is that sign that doping has been eliminated or a sign that dopers have figured out how to beat the tests or a sign that the powers that be are soft-pedaling? If, on the other hand, a small percentage of all tests conducted come up positive (which has been basically the case in the past few years, at least), is that a sign that anti-doping is working, with only a few riders attempting artificial enhancement and most of those getting caught; or is it a sign that many riders are doping, most being smart enough to figure out how to beat the tests (or at least smart enough to get with someone that knows how)?

At present, I think it is sort of a roshack test: one reads into the situation whatever one wants to, based on their pre-existing beliefs about the state of the sport. Is there some other way to determine if the fight against doping is being won? I don’t know, but I think it is important. Only if we can get some good, solid, more or less objective way to gauge progress can we make judgements on whether or not the current program is good.

This is not a question of whether any of the current tests for PEDs are valid and useful, but whether or not the whole approach to battling doping is the best. At present, the idea seems to be test a small percentage of riders, concentrating on the top riders, and administer draconian punishment to those caught, with some lightening of punishment for those who cooperate. The hope seems to be to serve up sufficient deterrent so those contemplating doping decide the risks are not worth it. Some, like Michael Shermer, propose increasing the penalties to create even greater deterrent, based on the idea that the current system is not working. Others think that the best way is to switch the burden to the teams, such as we have seen a few teams do this year. It is probably too early to pass judgement on such programs, but as far as I know, they seem to have avoided problems, or dealt with them, as the team (I forget who it was) that fired a rider when the team’s testing revealed PED usage.

So which way is best? How can we tell if we don’t know how to determine what the results we see mean?

Jean C October 10, 2008 at 8:48 am

William

The fight against doping will never be won that is a similar fight as against corruption, thieves,… and so. Never ended.
But it’s possible to have a better situation than in the last ten year.

CERA will probably not be use at pro level now but there is still a lot od undetectable asian, indian, russian, brasilian,… EPO!
There is others products wich are favoring the production of hEPO.
We can add hGH, IGF,…
And of course auto transfusion are still available.

The biopassport can reduce their use.

Lemond recently asked the good question “How can an athlete produce X watts during 30 mn with a limited VO2?”

eightzero October 10, 2008 at 2:16 pm

My apologies to all the rantors and TBVers out there. I am watching the conversations regarding Floyd’s recent filing with the CA district court with interest, but haven’t posted recently. The reasons are at least twofold: first, and most importantly, I find myself agreeing almost completely with Larry, and he usually beats me to the punch. Secondly, I feel rather strongly about how I think this should end for Floyd. I very much want him to prevail, since I think he has not only been screwed by a “system” but that no one in a position of authority seems motiviated to promote any system of justice for Floyd or for any athlete. I want a real judge in a real courtroom that has real rules and is answerable to a real constituency to be presented with a case for *justice*. Until now, we have seen none for Floyd, and none for the cause of science.

Consequently, seeing that Professionals Are On The Case, my $.02 worth would be only be to point out possible flaws in the only thing we have to analyize at this point – Floyd’s initial (and now amended) filing. And I’m not going to give one red cent of my efforts in a cause that could further the interests of USAC’s, USADA’s, WADA’s, IOC’s, ASO’s or any of their heathen cronies in the form of Dick Pound or similar. They have access to these postings, and while it unlikely they really care, I don’t trust them not to use something gleaned from a posting board against Floyd. Fairly, it did happen once.

I am satisfied the initial filing properly pleads subject matter jurisdiction, personal jurisdiction, and venue. FRCP8 requires a “a short and plain statement of the claim showing that the pleader is entitled to relief.” I see that in spades in this filing, regardless of any deeper analysis. And while it sometimes gets lost in the shuffle of legal esoterica, FRCP1 makes it plain: “[These rules] should be construed and administered to secure the just, speedy, and inexpensive determination of every action and proceeding.”

Those principles have been conspiciously absent from anything having to do with Floyd starting on July 24, 2006. A real judge now has the power to *do something about it*.

Rant October 10, 2008 at 8:14 pm

Jean,
True enough, the “war” on doping will never be won. I agree, it is possible that the situation can get better over time.
eightzero,
Understood. I certainly hope that Floyd gets a fair hearing in this venue, even if the only thing to be decided will be whether to vacate the CAS award and throw out the $100,000 fine the panel imposed.

And to everyone,
Some weird glitch happened after eightzero left his comment, where the comments function for the posts was turned off. I’m not sure how it happened, but I’ve fixed the issue. Sorry for the inconvenience. Every post should allow comments again. However, if there’s a post you run across for which comments are closed, use the contact form to get in touch with me and I’ll re-enable comments for that post.

William Schart October 10, 2008 at 9:15 pm

Whether or not the war against doping can be won depends in part on how onw defines a win: is it the total eradication of doping, or the reduction to some level deemed acceptable. And if the latter definition is going to be the one, then what is an acceptable level?

My point here is that, if we are to have an effective anti-doping system, there needs to be a pretty clearly defined goal, else how are we to know if we have reached it if we don’t know where we are going?

Since, as Jean points out, it is probably impossible to totally eliminate doping, I think that there needs to be some sort of level set, possibly coupled with some additional factors, like: no big names doping, most riders who do dope are caught, etc. And of course, even if we reach a state where we can declare a “win” it doesn’t mean the battle is over.

It’s kind of like the spitball in baseball: it’s been banned since the 1920’s, occasionally a pitcher will “load up” and a few, like Gaylord Perry, have probably made a career of it, but all in all, I don’t think that there are all that many spitballs thrown in MLB. Some pitchers are caught trying to doctor up the ball and all in all, I don’t think the spitball is a major issue in baseball today.

eightzero October 10, 2008 at 11:57 pm

Thanks for understanding, Rant. I guess I sort of went off on my own rant there – sorry. Didn’t mean to sound…rude. I’ve just been very disappointed with what others have done to Floyd and others similarly situated. I’d like to weigh in, but know it could be counterproductive. At least for now. 🙂 OTOH, once (if?) USADA answers, we’ll have something to dissect. In the end, yeah, we are only talking about the $100k award. But a US District Court Judge can right a lot of wrongs with a well-worded opinion. What I wouldn’t give to be that judge right now.

Morgan Hunter October 11, 2008 at 12:20 am

8-0

You said it man!

Isn’t the biggest joke – when the “get the doper at any cost” crowed comes out being exactly like the dopers who want to “win at any cost?”

As some of us would like Floyd to come out winning – we got the “six degrees of separation” crowd justifying their stance like the zealots they prove themselves to be. The “end justifies the means.”

It would seem that the “holier then thou crowed” should shift their sight to what degrees of “cheating” people are willing to go to?

Has anyone – maybe noticed how a very few have managed to put the very many into the flushing toilette that is now the world economy?

One can only suppose that we are ALL now reaping the “benefits” of those who ACCEPT that “finger pointing, insinuation, innuendo and public destruction” – is an acceptable way of playing “fair.”

Rant October 11, 2008 at 6:54 am

Morgan, eightzero and William,
Sorry about the moderation thing. Somehow a few settings on the blog got switched around yesterday. I think I’ve finally gotten everything switched back to how it was, but I’m not sure. If not, I’ll correct things as necessary. Sorry for the inconvenience, everyone.
William,
Agreed, that at some point there needs to be a definition of what a “win” in the “war on doping” amounts to. I also agree that at some point, everyone needs to come to an agreement on what an acceptable level is, as it will never be completely eliminated. Just like the war on drugs, or Prohibition, it’s a war that will never be won (I’ll stay away from other, more political, examples…).
Would it, say, be acceptable if the level was such that only a small fraction (two percent, perhaps?) were actually doping, and of that fraction, most would eventually get caught? Of course, we’d want the number of false positives to be very low, so that innocent athletes would not often be accused of doping. I’d be OK with something like that. If that were to become the acceptable limit, the next question in my mind is: “How do we get there from here?”

Morgan Hunter October 11, 2008 at 11:14 am

Hey Rant –

How do we get there from here? By screaming our heads off and not let “opportunists” in position of power get away with thinking that we can live with THEIR interpretations and creations of “one sided” – jurisprudence – be it for simply the rules and bylaws how we “play a simple game!” Or how we chose to live and comport ourselves within our laws.

A large majority of spinners involved in sports today would like everyone to believe that it is a”matter of jingoistic nationalism” that is creating a milue of distrust and unfair laws on the books. Balderdash!

Laws do not create man -man create laws! You can not believe that “what is cheating” is INTERPRETED differently by different nationalities. Cheating is cheating whether you are from Peoria or Minsk.

If the rules which are man created are creating an unfair reality – it is because those who originally wrote and created them DID SO WITH CONFLICT OF INTEREST from the very start.

The idea of 100% clean racing is idiotic – since there will always be villains who try to beat the system and cheat. But it is possible to create RULES AND BYLAWS that are “fair” and do not ignore the rights of the individual.

That’s how “you get there from here!”

William Schart October 11, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Rant:

You are right, a big question, once we decide were we want to go is “how do we get there from here?” But we also need to know where “here” is. If the goal is that only a few percent are doping and most of those get caught, well only a few percent are getting caught today. Is that because only a few are doping, with most getting caught; or because many are doping and only a few are getting caught? There is a lot of speculation, but little hard facts to support one point of view or the other.

Rant October 13, 2008 at 7:08 am

William,
Quite right. Exactly what is the current situation (the “here” that we’re trying to get “there” from)? We’ve hear anecdotes about the past, but the reality of the present is a bit murky. It appears one way on the surface, but is that really what’s going on? The facts are, indeed, hard to come by.
Morgan,
Good points.

Jean C October 13, 2008 at 12:31 pm

It was Kohl’s time today. He is the last top-rider caught for CERA by AFLD.

Probably some other riders will be caught for CERA and others with their bio markers at the end of the season as already announced.

Previous post:

Next post: